927: Real Estate Agents: Earn BIG by Bringing Value with Francis Mangubat

Aaron Amuchastegui: Real Estate Rock Stars, this is Aaron Amuchastegui, and I am back today to interview Francis Mangubat. Francis is living in one of my favorite cities in the US, one of my favorite cities in the world, Philadelphia. I remember the first time I got to go travel there a couple of years ago, with my family. We had just started homeschooling, you start seeing all these things, and it’s like, whoa, Monopoly was based off of Philadelphia, right? You see so much stuff out there as you start to really experience it.

Francis, how’s it going, man?

Francis: Aaron, it’s going really well. I just got done closing, I just got done lunch, and I got my cold brew La Colombe coffee with an espresso shot in it. It’s crazy. Philadelphia actually had Todd Carmichael, the CEO of La Colombe, signed his first La Colombe on 19th and Walnut, I think. He’s still locked into a long-term lease paying $1900 a month.

Aaron: That is some really crazy stuff. It’s so much real estate history there, so much kind of US world history there. Are you from Philadelphia originally?

Francis: No, I was actually born in Manila in the Philippines. I moved to the US when I was eight years old, lived in Chicago, Illinois for a year, Buffalo, New York for four years, grew up in central Delaware, and I majored in finance at the University of Delaware. I graduated in 2016, and at that time, I was considering, I knew I wanted to get into real estate, so I was considering either doing real estate in New York, Los Angeles, or Philadelphia.

I picked Philadelphia because when I started, I was paying $800 a month for rent living in my buddy’s newly constructed house, compared to New York and LA, really high overhead. I’d be paying $2500-3000 a month. Just getting out of college, Philadelphia made sense for me.

Aaron: It’s still a pretty cool, fun city life, but just a third of the cost of some of those big cities just a few hours drive away.

Francis: Yes, a third of the cost, and I saw the opportunity in this city with owning real estate and development. I’d say I absolutely made the right decision.

Aaron: Now you’ve been an agent for, you said four years, right, four years? 26 years old, really crushing it, how many transactions did you do last year?

Francis: Last year we did around 212 transactions, $85 million in volume.

Aaron: $85 million in volume, and just four years in. We like saying that at the beginning just so people know that they should be listening. 212 transactions, $85 million, that’s big volume out there. You do that yourself, or with a team?

Francis: With a team. My business partner, he is a general contractor, and he built like 80 units in the last two years, and then our team now is 10 agents and two admin, and definitely looking to grow.

Aaron: Yes, you should grow that. What was your first year like in real estate? You were already living in Philadelphia, you got your license. Where did you go to work when you first got your license?

Francis: When I first got started, my mentor, his name is Antonio Atacan, he is a Wharton alumni who’s the number four agent in the country for Prudential Fox Roach, did like $95 million in sales, as a team, $35 million in sales himself, so when I was first getting started, I wanted to learn from someone who was the absolute best, and so my first nine months in the business, 2016, did $4-4.5 million in sales, and I’d say, 80% buy side.

Aaron: How did you get those buyer clients your first year? That’s a lot of clients your first year. You had a good mentor that got to guide you, but how would you go get those buyer clients?

Francis: Definitely open houses. I would do four every single weekend, no excuses. I would do 11:00 to 1:00, then 1:30 to 3:30 every single weekend. I’d say I had a business, and I made money while in college, so I had a really good amount of savings set aside. I actually did breakfast, lunch, and dinner out every single day with someone of influence, most people who did better financially than me, so I was able to build a very strong network of referrals right away.

Aaron: That’s very interesting. At the very beginning, you did four open houses a weekend, so if somebody’s going to set up a goal list, or this is what I should do, four open houses a weekend, that’s simple. Four different houses, going out there and getting yourself out there. Then you also said that essentially every meal, so breakfast, lunch, and dinner, you made it an intention to say, “Who am I going to go to lunch with right now? Whom am I going to go to dinner with right now?”

A lot of people wouldn’t think about that as part of your goal list as part of the way to broaden that. That’s a unique perspective. You were super intentional about making sure you always had meals with new, influential people, and doing those open houses. Anything else that you can think of in that first year that helped you get some of those extra clients?

Francis: What I would say, Aaron, is that I need to go hand-in-hand with eating out with every single meal, the top, top agents that were in my brokerage, like Sky Michiels who had a $60 million a year team, Kristen Dailey, my friend did $30-40 million a year team, Noah Ostroff, who one point had a $250 million a year team, I was taking them out to lunch, dinner, and it wasn’t like, “Hey, let’s go to McDonald’s for lunch or dinner,” I’d take them to the nicest places, like Barkley Prime, where they have $120 cheesesteak, just so they would remember me.

For me, I want to add value to their life and what they’re doing, just because anyone who makes a million dollars a year, their time’s worth $500 an hour, so if I’m taking them out to a two-hour lunch, it’s technically $1000, netting my pocket. What’s dinner going to cost for that? It’s like, $200-$300, so I’m actually benefiting more from learning from them and having them take two hours of their day to help me and do me a favor.

Aaron: I like that, I like that perspective and that thinking behind it. You really quickly said you had a business in college that helped you get that savings. What was that business that you had in college?

Francis: I did direct sales for a company, Isagenix, it’s a health and wellness company, and then I worked at JP Morgan, I was making $25 an hour interning. I made, like, $70 grand my senior year, which was–

Aaron: How are you doing that while you’re going to school? What’s funny is that you were actually able to stop doing that. I think a lot of people at 22, if they’re making $70,000 a year, they’re like, “Why do anything different? Why should I change?” I think a lot of people think that’s doing really, really well. At that time, did you ever think of, “Hey, maybe I should keep working at JP Morgan,” and keep doing this or did you know for sure it’s like now real estate was going to be your thing?

Francis: I knew that JP Morgan was not the move because Delaware is a middle business school. It’s not like the IVs and like Harvard and NYU that JP Morgan and their front office or the big investment banks and hedge funds are recruiting out of those schools. The back office, let’s say, big four accounting firms recruited out of Delaware and I’d say you’re on a track to make six figures by late twenties.

For me, I just knew that I could do better. I met this guy, Aaron Biles, who’s a really good friend of mine. He was the number one agent on Antonio’s team. He was doing 10 million a year in sales consistently. Say alright, $10 million in sales he’s making over $200,000. He’s doing better than my mom who’s an OB-GYN and went through medical school residency and basically she didn’t start making a couple hundred thousand dollars a year until she was in her mid-thirties. That’s why real estate made a lot of sense for me to get in.

Aaron: That’s a really interesting comparison. You got to see somebody here and go wait, he’s doing really, really good and my mom has a medical degree and it’s the same. You’re but really you had just got your college degree but people who get into real estate with no degree. They can jump right into it at 18 years old. There isn’t a business in the world like that you can go make a couple hundred thousand dollars a year with no degree or maybe there is, but I don’t know what it is.

Francis: Aaron, what’s really funny is that my buddy, Aaron Biles, he actually dropped out at Penn State but he tells everyone he went to Penn State and then no one asks, hey did you actually graduate from Penn state? Then the second thing I looked at my career and I thought, if I don’t make any money for four years, I’m still doing better than if I were to go pay the $200,000 to go be a physician. I also think that most Physician’s that go to school just because they want to make an impact on the world and look at all the frontline COVID warriors that are just saving the planet. I think it’s more honorable or–

Aaron: I think you’re right. I think the inference, I think of stuff and money a lot of sense right? I think of a lot of value-

Francis: Yes, me to.

Aaron: Yes but you’re right. A doctor doesn’t necessarily go become a doctor because of the money. They also, I think they love what they do. Most attorneys probably do it for the money but as we get there. It says you’re ranked number five for volume in Philadelphia. When was that, was that last couple years?

Francis: That was June of 2020.

Aaron: June of 2020 ranked number five in volume for Philadelphia and there’s a lot of people doing real estate out there. You also own real estate out you’re also an investor tell me a little bit about your investments?

Francis: Aaron, I ended up buying a house every single year. Primary residence getting the best financing and then after a year, I’ll go move out and do another one. I’d say that that’s the best move to make if you’re just getting started and aren’t making a whole lot of money. Then once you start making money and you have just hundreds of thousands of dollars sitting in the back that’s when you can start to do more complex transactions.

Right now, I’m actually building my own house. It’s in the Northern part of the Graduate hospital, which is a 10 minute walk to Rittenhouse square which is the premium, premium Philadelphia location. It’s comparable to central park in New York but I’ll be in my house for 700,000 to $750,000 all in. Acquisition hard cost soft cost. It’ll be worth a million to 1.1 and then live in it for two years sell it take $250,000 bucks tax free, which is like making $450,000 ordinary income.

Aaron: Yes so people that are listening out there that’s the idea. If you own a house for over two years before you sell it, it’s taxed at such a smaller rate that it’s similar to making less money that’s taxed at that normal rate right?

Francis: Yes that’s one of the deals. I’m fortunate to where my clients are some of the most successful and most sophisticated developers in Philadelphia. I invest with my clients still. We have a project where it’s, we’re building three houses for $1.5 million dollars each. Then I’m going to invest in another one of my clients which is I think it’s a 25 units with 17 parking spots. Yes, just a broad overview of everything.

I’d say that one of my very, very good friends from high school, he works at Centerview Partners or used to work there. One of the most prestigious investment banks in the world. I said, “Hey, the principles of your company are millionaires and you are around some of the most sophisticated people in the world. What have you learned from them about personal finance and personal investing?” Then he’s like, “It’s just what’s your IRR on investments?” That’s just what I look at. Where am I going to hit the highest IRR.

Aaron: When you end up investing with your partner. It started as you were an agent and then you would buy a house every year and you’d live in it the, next year you would keep it, rent it, buy another house, keep the good interest rate. If you sold a house, you’d wait for two years to make sure that you got that. It’s when you met some along the way. Developers became your clients and your friends and when you invest with them alongside their projects, they’re going to build three custom homes and they’re going to sell them, are you also the agent that sells them at that point is someone on your team do that or is that totally different?

Francis: No, it’s me. I collect $80 to $100 a week.

Aaron: I think too that’s probably a way that some agents can get more business finding the developers. Saying, let me invest alongside you, what do you need to do that development? Then to be able to get that. Were you listing houses for these people before you became an investor for them?

Francis: Yes definitely. I’d say raising capital for developers is definitely above and beyond the scope of being an agent. I’d say the developers that I’m closest with and that I go above and beyond for it’s a two-way street. I think when there’s a new agent and you just get your license and a developer tells you, if you find your deal then you can list it down the road. Whereas a very seasoned agent like myself, that’s not really that appealing anymore because I have a ton of buyers and sellers that want to go sell houses. Earlier this year, I gave an agent on my team lead for 1.1 million and I gave leads for 800,000. Just this weekend just gave a listing for 350,000.

I’d say the developers that I take on and go above and beyond I go and get friends of mine to go support their projects when they’re trying to get a variance for units or I’m coming up with helping them out with their proformas and helping them select finishes. Those are, I’d say, really, really good clients of mine where if they go and pick up other stuff, they’re definitely going to sell that for me if they go find it elsewhere. I’d say I have a lot of very, very loyal clients too. I take mental notes and I know who’s loyal and who’s not and the most loyal ones get the best in return from me.

Aaron: Here, we’ve had a few people come on and talk about the idea of having some clients that are sellers, some that are buyers, but also having some clients that are investors because investors– A client if you help them buy or sell a house, there’s a decent chance that every few years you could be their client again, but in an investor client, there’s a chance that you could sell two or three houses for them every single year. Giving them– Do you feel like you give them– Did you narrow in on them early on and say, “Hey, if I can do a really good job for this investor, he’s going to get me a lot more leads.”?

Francis Mangubat: Yes, so I actually have two clients from North New Jersey and New York City, Alpine area, where they both started with– they just built eight houses to kind of get started, get their feet wet in the Philadelphia market. They gave me like a test, they gave me one house to sell. It was in Fishtown, which Forbes named hottest neighborhood in America, two, three years ago.

I sold that house when it was dry-walled and I’d say that opened up the opportunity to the other eight units. It’s funny now, both guys are doing- they split their partnership but they’re doing 50 units themselves. I have a fair amount of clients that have that type of experience. I work with big, bigger developers, maybe not as big as Ryan Serhant where you’re selling– where you have a building that’s like couple billion bucks in out sales.

Aaron: Yes, it’s one of that, when you get one of those kind of clients where you get to sell out for those developers, it adds up the. Still might give you a test though, right, like I had. I was selling five houses out in Sacramento, and there were houses that we built. The first one, when I hired an agent for it, there was a friend of mine but at the beginning I was like, “Hey, we’ll have you do one, right, and if you do a great job then maybe we’ll do the other ones.”

She had worked so hard on that. First one, doing everything to get sold, then it would make it really simple because, you can now list the next four and that one deal turns into five. I think as people go out and work extra hard– People should work extra hard for their clients no matter what because if you work, do a really good job, they tell friends, they tell people, and it builds, but there are also some clients out there that are going to do a lot of transactions in the same year.

You talked about having $1 million lead and giving it up to someone on your team. When you do something like that, is it just a, “Hey, here’s the lead and you do it,”? Do you do referral fees when you pass leads on to people when you’re too busy? What are people doing when you do that?

Francis: On my team, leads are generated by the team which is me and my partner, and I think we’ve given away maybe seven. We’ve probably given away like 7 to 10 million of business this year just from our network, but yes, it’s at a 50% split for our team. Yes.

Aaron: So, right now–

Francis: Some people do lower, some people do higher.

Aaron: What percentage of your listings are from your developers right now?

Francis: 70%.

Aaron: What about the other 30% of business you’re doing, where are you getting– is it buy-side? Is it sell side? What are you doing?

Francis: I’d say I’m 70% listings, 30% buyers. Then, out of my– 70% of my businesses is listings, I’d say 70% of that is from developers and the other 30% is sphere, and then I’d say my 30% of buyers are all sphere like all my business is sphere of influence.

Aaron: Are those buyers mostly trying to get houses or are those buyers also investors trying to get deals in best places?

Francis: Both. I’d say it’s one of the things that I’ve been fortunate to be able to do is. I am, I guess now, I’m in the like, I don’t know how to call it, like the high-income Philadelphia friend group to where I have friends all the time who want to go buy houses like $500,000 to $1 million. It’s great to be in the network or in the friend group.

Aaron: That was a friend group– You were intentional about building that group, right?

Francis: Absolutely.

Aaron: You wanted to go. A lot of people will say, “Housing prices aren’t that here,” or ” I don’t have a lot of friends who can buy $500,000, $1 million houses,” but you didn’t either when you started getting into real estate. You told the story at the beginning how intentional you were about taking people out to lunch and becoming friends with them and being able to get invited.

I think that that’s an important caveat to remind people. Your friend group has brought you huge, huge deals now, but you building a high network worth friend group, that wasn’t just handed to you. You built that, and you worked hard for it, and now it’s paying off in Spain.

Francis: Absolutely, and what I would say, Aaron, to that is that my intention when I was going out, grabbing lunch and stuff, it’s not to, “Hey, let me give you this so I can go and get business in return.” I always had money even when I first started, so my mindset when going out is, “How do I add value to their life or how can I introduce someone to someone else where they’re going to benefit?” I’d say that has really helped me out. I’d say a lot of– I have a lot of people that go out of the way to– I’d say it’s better to be owed favors than you owing someone else favors.

I have a lot people who owe me favors. It’s like when you go and pick up the phone, is the other person going to pick their phone up right away or are they going to reply with some automated text message and they’ll call you later down the road? I always like to add so much value that when I’m calling they’re going to pick up right away or they’re going to text me like, “Hey, I can chat in like 30 minutes.”

Aaron: Yes, it makes so much sense. The average sales price where you’re at, what’s that for you? You’re doing all sorts of different versions, but of your 112 transactions.

Francis: I’d say for the team, maybe like $400,000. I’d say mine is probably higher than that.

Aaron: You’re talking about having this friend group and you’re getting a lot of listings from that. There’s a lot of people out there that don’t want to ask their friends for business. They don’t want to come off pushy, that sort of thing. How do you make sure that your friends come to you? How do you make sure they know you’re in real estate that there’s probably a few guys in your network that also do real estate? Have you struggled with that at all, being able to tell somebody, “Hey, like as a reminder, I’m an agent. If you’re thinking about it, I should be your guy.”? Is it like that?

Francis: It’s funny I never even tell people that I’m in real estate. I actually make it a point not to tell people what I do and I’m in real estate. I’d say have a very strong social media presence and I’m almost like an influencer that it’s just kind of who I am. I’d say when people are introducing me now to friends and stuff, they’re like, “You got to work with Francis.” It’s kind of just a part of who I am. I actually make it a point not to tell people that I’m in real estate, which is the opposite of what training is to all new agents.

Aaron: Yes, there’s a lot of training out there that says you have to do the ask. When you meet somebody, I guess people are always asking. If you just meet somebody today, it’s a new friend, you’re not going to talk about real estate. You’re not going to talk about what you do this week. If they go find you on social media, is your social media, is it obvious on your social media that you do real estate?

Francis: Yes. Here, to quote my Instagram background, it’s a Instagram bio. It’s “@AdvancePhilly Co-Founder (85MM Real Estate Team), Real Estate Investor, Proud Udel Alumn.”

Aaron: I guess that way if you’re just meeting people, not telling them and they go find you on social media, become friends, then they’re going to be like, “Oh, all right, Francis does real estate.” You don’t have to a hard sale when you meet them because that sale could happen later. It’s just kind of in your face there.

Francis: What I would say, Aaron, too is that I guess I make a very strong first impression. I’d say New York and L.A. are very, super stylish and Philadelphia’s not. I’d say I do carry the New York and L.A. swag. It’s funny, like if we’re grabbing happy hour or someone, I think most people already know that I do well in real estate. When I think about real estate too, it’s a very sexy topic to speak about. Like, people want to know more and you’ll look at the shows like Million Dollar Listing and all the flip shows and selling sunset. People love to talk about real estate. Most of the time people were just asking me. I feel like financial planning and insurance, people are talking about, but with real estate, it’s like people are just always asking.

Aaron: Oh yes. TV’s totally amplified to every time I tell somebody that I flip houses, they’re always like, do Chip and Jo, have you seen this show? What did you know everything there’s so many flip this house. Real TV has made real estate a lot more exciting. A lot more fun. I think you’re right. Then people do like talking about it. They like thinking about it. They’re becoming investors, becoming agents, all sorts of different things. So what would you, what advice would you give to new agents getting started? You’re four years in. You’re doing really well. You were able to find a mentor early on and you had success pretty quickly in that first year. That’s not normal.

A lot of the 30, under 30 people we’ve been interviewing the last week, they did have really strong first couple of years, but most people in real estate don’t have that. So what would you be telling some, it’s just getting started, they’re a few months in they aren’t really seeing that yet. What advice would you give them on how to start getting busy in real estate?

Francis: What I would say, Aaron, is you go find the number one, number two, number three, people in your market, and you literally beg them to get a spot on their team.

Aaron: Just find the people there and say, hey, I just want to be on your team. I want to be in your network because maybe they’re going to get you some leads and you’re going to learn the system.

Francis: I wouldn’t even say leads because I’d rather be taught how to fish than be given fish. My little brother’s on my team and he hasn’t gotten a single, like for sale lead for me, because for our team, we don’t do like a round Robin on leads. It’s the best agents get the best leads. Catherine on our team, she did like 25 million in sales last year. She’s the one that got the $1.1 million lead. There’s just so much to learn from top producers.

It’s funny, like my good buddy, Mike McCann, I think he did like 380 million in sales last year. Probably like one of the top Keller Williams agents in the country. He was previously the number one agent at Berkshire Hathaway. I’ve learned so much from him. It’s funny. I’m like, dude, you could have had me on your team. Like you were my first cold call to get started because you are the number one agent, but I get it. Top producers are so busy and phones are always blowing up that it’s really hard for a top producer to take a new agent.

Aaron: Yes, I think that’s great advice though. I don’t remember hearing that anytime recently with any of our guests on there and there’s a different perspective. If people are getting started, find those people that are really crushing it in your market, reach out to all of them and say, hey, I want to be on your team. If you get your foot in the door, then you get to start trying to see how you can provide that value too. What about we have a fun question sometimes.

It’s like, so if you’re on stage giving a Ted talk. Like have you had, what’s your elevator pitch of what you would say that it could be real estate, it could be life skills, anything like, so you’ve had a lot of success in your life. You’ve tried a lot of different things. What’s your three minutes of advice that you would give just anybody? Like, so here’s your stage, and what would be the most important thing to tell them?

Francis: So, Aaron, I actually did a Ted talk four years ago in 2016 and the Ted talk was on the importance of mentors. It’s crazy that you asked that question because I feel like I’m learning from mentors every single day. I’ve learned so much from my clients and colleagues that are real estate agents as well. I’d say where the importance of mentors is really applied to me is. I don’t remember it, this social club in foot, up in the Fillmore club, it’s similar to the Soho house. A really amazing spectacular club.

Through the club, the club started this mentorship program. I just got accepted to be a mentee of Dean Adler who has his own real estate, private equity developer company. Lubert Adler where I think their equity positions are worth $7 billion if she owns this whole building. Looking forward to learning a lot more too.

Aaron: The power of mentors, and really that goes to a lot of different questions on the things that you’ve talked about. Is not trying to learn, not trying to learn it alone. You did at your very first year in real estate. You were like, hey, who can be my mentor and who can teach me? Even right now, when you’re like, what advice could you give somebody to go find that person and mentor? That’s obviously something that’s brought you a lot of success and what should that conversation be like? When people are reaching out and saying, hey, can you be my mentor? How do you reach out to somebody? You’re a no-name, they’re crushing it. How do you sell yourself to have them be your mentor?

Francis: What’s really funny, like the way that I do it because I’m totally like no-pressure salesperson at all. I’ll give you an example. This time last year, my go-to mortgage guy, Rob, he’ll probably do like 140 million worth of loans this year. His neighbor is one of my best friends to this day. He’s like an ultra-luxury real estate developer. He just sold a $2 million house to a fortune 100 CEO. I have a real estate deal for him where it’s like an 8,000 square foot shell in the most prestigious street here in Philadelphia.

Rob introduces the toolbox. I go out and meet, Max who’s one of my best friends now. He pulls up in his car and it’s like a blacked-out like BMW X5, he’s blaring rap music, illegally parks on the sidewalk. I’m like, “Dude, you’re a pretty cool guy.” We just started being friends just started working out in the morning. Started going out to happy hours and to events and stuff. We’re both members here at the Fillmore club, but I’d say it wasn’t like an official mentor-mentee position. Whenever I just want him to go take a look at, I had a question about something like right now I’m building my own house. He’s giving me feedback on what should cost and like what pricing nugget.

Then now he’s passing me along and helping me get some of his pricing. I’d say in every aspect, I’d say it’s just better to be friends with people rather than be an official mentor-mentee type of thing. I’ll give you an example. I have there’s like four incredibly currently successful athletes that live in my building. One, two, three of them have signed contracts worth over $150 million. When I’ve seen them, I’m never like, Oh dude, let me take a selfie. Just casually say what’s up because I don’t want to be a fan. I want to be a friend. I don’t want to be like that annoying guy. That’s like trying to ask for autographs. It’s just like, no play cool.

Aaron: I like that. I don’t want to be a fan. I want to be a friend. As you’re intentional about reaching out and who you can get to. I guess, and it’s just going to come down to volume and numbers too. You might have to, if you really need a mentor, you might have to reach out to 10 people. You’re not doing the hard sell to find that mentor that wants in, but then it can create even better relationships. Francis, so if people want to reach out to you, if they’re like, hey, I want to join your team in Philadelphia. They want to just find you to follow some of what you’re doing, what is the best way for people to reach out to you?

Francis: I’d say the best way to get connected is to follow me on Instagram at Francis Mangubat, just because I post where in my everyday life on Instagram. The second thing is YouTube subscribe to Francis Mangubat and posting like everything that they learn, the video guy that follows me around with a $10,000 camera putting up a video every single week. Then the last thing I’d say if you want to get ahold of me, shoot me an email at my personal email. That’s francis@advancedphilly.com

Aaron: Francis@advancedphilly.com. You said, and that was the other free gift that we talk about. We bring something of value on here and you said your YouTube link was a big thing where people can go on and learn all sorts of stuff and, and just let see more in the life of what you do and how you do it.

Francis: I put videos of exactly how I bought my first house seven steps from where I started. Then recently I have like a 37-minute video on how I became a self-made millionaire, at 25, not knowing anyone in Philly.

Aaron: That’s a big one. How to become a self-made millionaire at 25, that is going to stick out well. Francis, I think our listeners for this episode, I think they’re going to learn a lot. I think there is a different perspective what we’ve heard on here recently, so it’s an important part of finding a good mentor, finding a good team, and getting guidance from other people in order to be successful.

That’s something that you talked about. You gave your Ted talk for several years ago and that was what it was. Since then, you’ve been an agent for four years, you followed your own advice and you’ve really been crushing it. Congratulations on doing so good. Thank you for coming on the Real Estate Rockstars podcast, Francis, and maybe we’ll have you back again soon. You can tell us what’s new.

Francis: Yes, Aaron. Thanks for having me on.